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Lorna Reith, Chief Executive, Disability Alliance, spoke on incapacity benefit reform at the National Association of Welfare Rights Advisers (NAWRA) meeting held at Camden Town Hall on Friday 2nd December 2005.
Also speaking was Greg Chammings, a member of the – Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) incapacity benefit Reform Presentation Team.
What follows is a transcript based on notes taken at the meeting.
Greg Chammings - (DWP Incapacity Benefit Reform Presentation Team
Lorna Reith - Chief Executive, Disability Alliance
The increase in the numbers of people claiming incapacity benefit (IB) - now 2.63 million - is not related to the overall health of the nation i.e. people are living longer. As a personal example, when Greg worked in a jobcentre he got awarded points for moving people off the employment register and on to incapacity benefit.
Since 1997 the number of claims has fallen by a third, a result of a number of factors, including a stable economy and back to work schemes. Again none of these are related to the actual health of the claimant.
Since 2003 the numbers claiming IB has fallen by 50,000 as a result of Pathways to Work schemes that offer both health management support as well as help getting back into work. In addition pilot offices have been testing incentive payments such as return to work credit.
The success of Pathways to work can be gauged by comparing the claiming patterns for new claimants who claim IB in non Pathways areas. Normally one third of new claimants cease to claim IB after six months. In Pathways to work areas forty three per cent of new claimants cease claiming over the same period.
Work is good for people. It is good for people's health. Currently seventy five per cent of the potential workforce is in employment but the Government want this increased to eighty per cent. Getting people off IB and into work is part of a strategy aimed at contributing to sustained economic growth whilst at the same time aiding social inclusion.
Pathways to Work has demonstrated that it is possible to move people off IB and into work given certain factors. Chief among these are early intervention as well as the involvement of health professionals. Counselling and support for those with mental health conditions is of particular importance in getting them back into work.
The role of employers needs also to be considered. Many employers do not know how to manage people who are sick.
Moving on to welfare reform. It is not intended to change the medical assessment that determines whether someone receives IB but it is recognised that personal advisers need more information and guidance when discussing work and health management options with an IB claimant.
The aim of welfare reform is also to simplify the current system and provide incentives for people who wish to move into work. At the same time there is now less money available to carry out this scheme.
Part of Lorna's speech countered or corrected that of Greg. In particular she disputed figures for the overall number of people on IB. In actual fact there are only 1.4 million on IB and this number has fallen by twenty four per cent since 1995. The larger figure of 2.63 million includes people on other benefits such as income support.
It is acceptable to use this larger figure when talking about a potential target audience for help into work but should it not be quoted when discussing the number of people on IB.
She then briefly recounted the various ministerial changes that have led up the current delay of the Green Paper. As a result the Green Paper is now expected in January 2006. Its scope will now go beyond incapacity. It seems that there has also been a reemergence of disagreements about future changes to the IB structure.
These disagreements have caused a certain confusion as to what the new structure will be. It is unclear what the new medical assessment will entail for example.
Some parts of the proposed Green Paper (as implied from the dwp five year plan) are to be welcomed. The tailored support supplied in Pathways to Work areas has proved popular. Higher levels of benefit payments are also welcomed. Disability Alliance is also glad to see a greater emphasis on job retention to enable people who are sick to stay in work rather have to claim IB.
However Disability Alliance does not believe that it is necessary to impose conditionality rules and sanctions for non-compliance. Experience from the pilot areas indicates that where support is offered demand for it is high.
There is also a greater duty imposed on personal advisers who will have to judge whether someone is "engaging" with an interview when they may not be familiar with any mitigating circumstances such as the effects of medication or symptoms related to the claimant's condition. In the pilots advisers had to phone claimants to reassure them because the initial letters sent out were too threatening.
The proposed new IB system where, after an initial period, claimants will separate off onto one of two benefits, dependent on whether they are ready for support into work is both artificial and potentially divisive.
The division itself does not reflect the actual job prospects of people with different disabilities. Someone who is blind, for example, may be more "job ready" than someone with autism but the blind person might be grouped otherwise.
Disability Alliance would prefer there to be only one benefit model in order to prevent those targeted for support into work from being stigmatised as "scroungers".
Disability Alliance would also like to see more emphasis on the role of employers and greater advertisement of support available in the workplace. Access to Work in particular should be better advertised.
There is also more scope for extending the current permitted work system. Currently the lowest rate only allows someone to work for three hours a week under the minimum wage rules.
The working tax credit rules could also be amended to provide more support for disabled people who wish to work.
Disability Alliance would urge all present to respond to the Green Paper when it is published. We will be doing our own response and various materials and information will be available on our website, which you can freely use.
Q. People with mental health problems already wait a long time to access health support. Isn't there a danger that these new proposals for getting people back into work will put a strain on existing services and also lead to queue jumping?
A. (Greg) - Yes this is a problem. Unfortunately there is limited funding available. This problem is also one of the reasons for the Green Paper delay.
A.(Lorna) - I share the questioner's concerns, especially if the new system splits into two tiers. There will be pressure to help those targeted for support into work at the expense of those with more severe conditions. Provision of health services should be based on medical need.
Q. Current EMP reports are already inadequate. How are the DWP going to ensure that the Personal Adviser receives the correct information?
A. (Greg) - Personal Advisers do not make health decisions. They simply require more information about the condition. Thirty per cent of GPs refuse to respond to requests for information.
A.(Lorna) - It has always been understood that these assessments were made by medically qualified professionals but there is a real danger that Personal Adviser decisions will merge into being health decisions.
Q. Will Pathways to Work be extended, given that there is no money available?
A. (Greg) - There is enough money to roll the Pathways scheme out to one third of all claimants. Whether any more money s made available depends on the treasury.
A.(Lorna) - This question is Greg's territory.
Q. In the past, following the miner's strike and pit closures, miners were persuaded to claim IB as the best option available to them. Why should they now be forced to comply with these new proposals?
A. (Greg) - I agree that this is a group that was let down in the past. Job creation schemes do not work. Early intervention and support is better. However the focus of the proposed new scheme will be on those new claimants moving onto IB rather than long term claimants.
A.(Lorna) - It is important to recognise that, even if miners were encouraged to claim Sickness Benefits, they were still deemed to be sick according to the disability tests. We know there are people currently working who if they stopped would be eligible to claim IB. In these cases it is the support provided that is the key to being able to work.
People who have been out of work a long time need to trust the system. They will not do this if they are threatened with sanctions and are not given adequate support.
A. (Greg) - Following on from Lorna's reply I would like to make a point about conditionality. If there are no conditions for receiving benefits the number of claims made increases. It is too easy to overdramatise this issue. Advisers get their motivation from helping people not applying sanctions.
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